Bringin On The Heartbreak

Aqualung · 07-22-2008, 03:50 AM

Hi! I was experimenting with Reaper, and when I got to the section in the user manual about recording, I decided to record the most recent song I'm working on, which is Bringin On The Heartbreak, by Def Leppard. Well, I was really getting into it, so I recorded all the parts (except for the outro lead guitar, because I haven't learned that yet; the drums because, well, I don't play drums; and the vox, which my brother recorded but didn't want put up on the internet) and then started playing around mixing and equalising them. So that's where I want feedback. How's the mix and the EQ?

All the effects are done through Reaper. I just plugged directly into my computer's sound card.

Also, feel free to comment on my playing.

I've enclosed an ogg file (it's a lossless compession type), and also an mp3 if you can't play ogg for some reason.

MusicMan · 07-22-2008, 06:00 AM

Nice work, it's great to see you recording multiple instruments now. I'll have to check out Reason when I get a chance.

Overall, on my pc speakers (just two so I don't wake up the neighbors) the bass sounds a bit loud and punchy. There's also some hiss as if one track was recorded at low volumes and amplified. The hiss gets louder when the lead guitar comes in too, so maybe it's the guitar chain that either needs levels brought up and compressed, or just filtered in post. It's possible that the entire mix is a bit too loud, though when pulling up in Goldwave, your levels don't look terribly bad. They average around .5 to .6, whereas if I was making an instrumental track to lay vocals onto later, I would probably have it be about half that or slightly more (average around .3 to .4).

IMO that would lessen the need to overamplify, which since you probably don't have in-chain compressors, would help reduce hiss. It would also have the same effect when adding a vocal track. To have the vocals prominent in the mix, you'd either have to scream or pump up the volume, and thus creating more unwanted noise, either general hiss, feedback, or electronic noise in your chain.

So try that out and hopefully it'll work for you. Let me know if you run into any more problems along the way. I'd love to hear the vox, tell your brother to not be shy.

Aqualung · 07-22-2008, 06:31 AM

Yeah, some of the instruments I had to make the volume a lot higher, and I haven't found the hiss reducer yet.

But I reduced the volume of the lead when the vox were on, so the hiss isn't all the time, just like you pointed out. I hadn't noticed the bass, though. Do I just turn the volume down or do I have to adjust the EQ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicMan

IMO that would lessen the need to overamplify, which since you probably don't have in-chain compressors, would help reduce hiss.

I see what you're getting at. I'll give that a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicMan

So try that out and hopefully it'll work for you. Let me know if you run into any more problems along the way. I'd love to hear the vox, tell your brother to not be shy.

He's got a deeper voice - Def Leppard is a bit above his normal range.

MusicMan · 07-22-2008, 03:27 PM

There's nothing wrong with singing an octave lower or transposing a song down to meet your vocal range, I'd still like to hear it. It'd be good for his confidence too, as long as he's not way off key the whole time.

As for the bass, you get most of the punchy sounds from 80Hz to 400Hz, so you might try flattening the EQ for those ranges, or dropping the entire bass track in the mix a little. Get it to where you think the levels are right, then play it back on a weak, treble-heavy system like two PC speakers, then play it on a stereo with some subwoofers and compare. Playback on multiple systems is really beneficial and can save you a lot of time and heartache if you do it while you're recording instead of waiting until you've got a completed project to try it out on multiple stereos.

Aqualung · 07-22-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicMan

There's nothing wrong with singing an octave lower or transposing a song down to meet your vocal range,

Yeah, true. I guess we were just trying to make as "regular" as possible, but we can modify it for our own good.

Quote:

As for the bass, you get most of the punchy sounds from 80Hz to 400Hz, so you might try flattening the EQ for those ranges, or dropping the entire bass track in the mix a little. Get it to where you think the levels are right, then play it back on a weak, treble-heavy system like two PC speakers, then play it on a stereo with some subwoofers and compare. Playback on multiple systems is really beneficial and can save you a lot of time and heartache if you do it while you're recording instead of waiting until you've got a completed project to try it out on multiple stereos.

Yeah, some day I hope to have a really good sound card with multiple outputs so I can do that.

But thanks for the EQ tip.

Stringbender · 07-24-2008, 06:01 PM

Listening to it now- I LOVE it! The solo work is awesome and as you know I'm a NUT for a solo..so you did perfect work nailing Steve Clark's (or is it Phil Collen's?) solo work. The rhythm guitar tone sounds a bit too acoustic sounding..like an overdriven acoustic- needs more distortion or something to get that good old Marshall crunch going. But I am REALLY impressed with your soloing.. really nice stuff! Maybe you could just do a lead guitar playing the melody lines instead of having it sung.. that would be pretty cool, especially if you bring in another 1 or 2 guitars doing harmony for the chorus..hmmm.

Aqualung · 07-24-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringbender

Listening to it now- I LOVE it! The solo work is awesome and as you know I'm a NUT for a solo..so you did perfect work nailing Steve Clark's (or is it Phil Collen's?) solo work. The rhythm guitar tone sounds a bit too acoustic sounding..like an overdriven acoustic- needs more distortion or something to get that good old Marshall crunch going. But I am REALLY impressed with your soloing.. really nice stuff! Maybe you could just do a lead guitar playing the melody lines instead of having it sung.. that would be pretty cool, especially if you bring in another 1 or 2 guitars doing harmony for the chorus..hmmm.

Yeah, I've had a really hard time figuring out how to get the sound I want. As I mentioned earlier, I just plugged by un-modified guitar into the sound card of my computer, and tried to get all the effects in post production. My brother still keeps complaining about how "twangy" the intro guitars sound.

Right now I'm working on a drum track, and my brother is trying to sing it more in tune so he's comfortable having it up. But in a bit (maybe a few days or weeks, who knows?) I'll put up a completed version.

And thanks for the compliments on the guitar work. I thought it sounded terrible, but I guess hearing it so often makes me focus on all the parts it sounds bad instead of all the parts it sounds good.

Aqualung · 07-24-2008, 10:14 PM

Gah! I totally forgot about my dad's amp! I'm going to rerecord some of the guitar parts with actual effects instead of supplying them all post production.

Aqualung · 07-25-2008, 05:47 AM

Ok, here's the new instrumental version after I discovered my dad's amp. Let me know what you think of this mix. Especially what you think about the guitar that plays during the verses (that picked guitar) and the heavily distorted guitar of the chorus.

I'm only going to upload an ogg now, since more people viewed that than the mp3, so I assume that just some people who used the ogg also looked at the mp3? If you can't open an ogg, though, let me know.

07-22-2008, 06:00 AM	#2
MusicMan "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Inside your head Posts: 7,404 Thanks: 565 Thanked 464 Times in 405 Posts Rep Power: 500	Nice work, it's great to see you recording multiple instruments now. I'll have to check out Reason when I get a chance. Overall, on my pc speakers (just two so I don't wake up the neighbors) the bass sounds a bit loud and punchy. There's also some hiss as if one track was recorded at low volumes and amplified. The hiss gets louder when the lead guitar comes in too, so maybe it's the guitar chain that either needs levels brought up and compressed, or just filtered in post. It's possible that the entire mix is a bit too loud, though when pulling up in Goldwave, your levels don't look terribly bad. They average around .5 to .6, whereas if I was making an instrumental track to lay vocals onto later, I would probably have it be about half that or slightly more (average around .3 to .4). IMO that would lessen the need to overamplify, which since you probably don't have in-chain compressors, would help reduce hiss. It would also have the same effect when adding a vocal track. To have the vocals prominent in the mix, you'd either have to scream or pump up the volume, and thus creating more unwanted noise, either general hiss, feedback, or electronic noise in your chain. So try that out and hopefully it'll work for you. Let me know if you run into any more problems along the way. I'd love to hear the vox, tell your brother to not be shy. __________________ Rules! A definite must-read How to upload music to the Music Showcase. How to embed a YouTube video. Send me a PM if you need any help with anything.

07-22-2008, 03:27 PM	#4
MusicMan "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Inside your head Posts: 7,404 Thanks: 565 Thanked 464 Times in 405 Posts Rep Power: 500	There's nothing wrong with singing an octave lower or transposing a song down to meet your vocal range, I'd still like to hear it. It'd be good for his confidence too, as long as he's not way off key the whole time. As for the bass, you get most of the punchy sounds from 80Hz to 400Hz, so you might try flattening the EQ for those ranges, or dropping the entire bass track in the mix a little. Get it to where you think the levels are right, then play it back on a weak, treble-heavy system like two PC speakers, then play it on a stereo with some subwoofers and compare. Playback on multiple systems is really beneficial and can save you a lot of time and heartache if you do it while you're recording instead of waiting until you've got a completed project to try it out on multiple stereos. __________________ Rules! A definite must-read How to upload music to the Music Showcase. How to embed a YouTube video. Send me a PM if you need any help with anything.

07-24-2008, 06:01 PM	#6
Stringbender Guitar Junkie Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: they call it "Earth", the structure is called a "house". Posts: 1,525 Thanks: 264 Thanked 200 Times in 173 Posts Rep Power: 131	Listening to it now- I LOVE it! The solo work is awesome and as you know I'm a NUT for a solo..so you did perfect work nailing Steve Clark's (or is it Phil Collen's?) solo work. The rhythm guitar tone sounds a bit too acoustic sounding..like an overdriven acoustic- needs more distortion or something to get that good old Marshall crunch going. But I am REALLY impressed with your soloing.. really nice stuff! Maybe you could just do a lead guitar playing the melody lines instead of having it sung.. that would be pretty cool, especially if you bring in another 1 or 2 guitars doing harmony for the chorus..hmmm. __________________ Only with the eyes closed can one begin to truly see.

07-24-2008, 10:14 PM	#8
Aqualung Pshaw! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 11,548 Thanks: 527 Thanked 731 Times in 684 Posts Rep Power: 271	Gah! I totally forgot about my dad's amp! I'm going to rerecord some of the guitar parts with actual effects instead of supplying them all post production. __________________ Here we go. Mushu cereal for breakfast with duck sauce.

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