What do you guys think about israel's invasion

pokimol · 01-06-2009, 10:23 AM

What do you guys think about israel's invasion to Palestine?

Israel army killed hundreds of innocent kids and babies, they are insane
i think israel is an asshole

have you guys seen pics of palestinian baby that dies became victim of stupid war? when i saw the photos, i just can say "fcuk israel"

Belizer · 01-06-2009, 12:19 PM

I think that all members of Hamas must be in prison or like this, but Israel's bombing of innocent people and refusing from ceasefire is the same crime and no excuse for this. Do I have to believe that these guys (Israel politicians) are as stupid as Hamas terrorists? And do they believe that military opertaion will bring peace to Israel? I suspect that in the long term they created more problems for Israel than Hamas rockets.

MusicMan · 01-06-2009, 02:09 PM

I think that if my apartment building housed 4 apartments full of innocent people and 4 apartments full of terrorists who launched mortars day and night into a nearby territory and killed innocent people with those mortars, that for me to cry and complain when that nearby territory drops a bomb on our apartment building and kills everyone, innocent collateral damage included, would be a rediculously egocentric and childish point of view to hold. Yes, there is a struggle where both sides fight and both sides end up killing more than their intended targets, but who is always the instigator? The PLO and Hamas and all those other palestinian terrorist groups, that's who. You never see a few months of peace broken up by unprovoked mortar attacks FROM Israel, it's the other way around. So until the Palestinians realize that forever stepping on the toe of a giant superpower by proxy, and stop blaming every fucking thing on the people they're provoking, they're never going to fucking learn a thing and they'll eventually be wiped off the map. But I'm no foreign policy expert, that's just my $.02

Uncut Rubber · 01-06-2009, 05:12 PM

I like to think of Israel as a very big man who enters a theatre where all seats are occupied, then kicks some people out of their seats and lays down in a relaxed manner, laying half on top of some of the people next to him, and occasionally lashing out brutally when someone tries to give him a push.
Be reminded, what we know now as Israel was all Palestine territory once - now 78% per cent of former Palestine is Israel (and the people in that area were chased from their homes when Israel was founded), while the other 22% are the Palestine territories. And even in those 22% the Palestines aren't left alone - the West Bank is occupied, and its economy has been devastated by the "security wall", while the Gaza Strip could not be supplied with food because of the Israeli blockade, which lasted for several months prior to the current invasion.

MusicMan, I agree that Hamas and their buddies are idiots, but imagine being a little boy in one of the Palestinian territories... this might be some of the things you know/think about Israel:

'Israel has built this big wall - now Dad can't reach his olive grove.'
'Israel let these people come here who occupied a big house on the other side of town, then set fire to the neighbours' house and lots of other houses when they were thrown out.'
'My grandmother once told me that she had to leave her house when she was a child, along with many other people, because of Israel.'
And so on. If you have a miserable life with little hope for the future, and all you hear and see around you is 'Israel, Israel, Israel, it's all Israel's fault', is it hard to imagine that you join the men who fire missiles at Israel, or blow yourself up in an Israeli restaurant?

Aqualung · 01-06-2009, 07:14 PM

I agree with Uncut. But the way both sides have been handling the conflict is despicable.

Belizer · 01-06-2009, 07:20 PM

If I am not mistakes it is Japaneese who used to say "Evil divours itself." And now Hamas and Israel both are on this way. For me - no difference. Only the one who stops first will win. And there is no will for this from any side.

pokimol · 01-13-2009, 11:22 AM

I dont give a shite about who is start the fight, but it is now very very very necessary and important to every person and institution in this whole earth (including -the powerless- U.N) to try their best to stop israel killing thousands of innocent kids, womens and babies...

I think its the other way of genocide, israel Prime Minister is no different than NAZI's Hitler..

Fcuk Israel, Fcuk Bush !!!!

Kameraad Pannekoek · 01-13-2009, 10:35 PM

I think Israel could have probably handled things a lot better, but I really can't disagree that something really needed to be done, so I support them going in. Just wish there was a better way to go about things.

The big difference is that Israel kills civilians while going after military targets, while Hamas aims for civilians in the first place.

missingsince1983 · 01-13-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MusicMan

I think that if my apartment building housed 4 apartments full of innocent people and 4 apartments full of terrorists who launched mortars day and night into a nearby territory and killed innocent people with those mortars, that for me to cry and complain when that nearby territory drops a bomb on our apartment building and kills everyone, innocent collateral damage included, would be a rediculously egocentric and childish point of view to hold.

Does that still apply in your view if it's hundreds of innocent schoolchildren and their teachers and one or two terrorists? What about a whole village for 1 terrorist? A country? How far does it go?

rconkling · 01-15-2009, 10:17 PM

I see both sides-- I think Israel is putting out a match with a firehose, but I also understand that Israel is willing to live peacefully with the Palestinians, but Hammas has been very vocal that they will not stop until there is no Israel. What're you gonna do??

Habey Gonzo · 01-15-2009, 10:53 PM

I can't but agree with what MM said. And maybe add that, even if some palestinian territory was taken by israel decades ago (or whatever time), that territory was empty and abandoned, and there weren't many complaints. Then israel built infrastructures there, and once they were built, palestine asked for the territory back.

It's like saying "there, you can have my old car, it doesn't work", and once the guy who takes it fixes it and put new paint, asking to get it back.

MusicMan · 01-16-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habey Gonzo

I can't but agree with what MM said. And maybe add that, even if some palestinian territory was taken by israel decades ago (or whatever time), that territory was empty and abandoned, and there weren't many complaints. Then israel built infrastructures there, and once they were built, palestine asked for the territory back.

It's like saying "there, you can have my old car, it doesn't work", and once the guy who takes it fixes it and put new paint, asking to get it back.

Good point. It's been a while since I've seen you, welcome back.

Habey Gonzo · 01-16-2009, 07:29 PM

Well, I do still come and read every day, but don't post that often anymore

I guess if the new band I found ends up working, you might see something in the showcase!

Uncut Rubber · 01-16-2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habey Gonzo

I can't but agree with what MM said. And maybe add that, even if some palestinian territory was taken by israel decades ago (or whatever time), that territory was empty and abandoned, and there weren't many complaints.

The biggest lie I've heard in times. I quote from an article by John Pilger in the New Statesman, 12-1-2009:
'...that the infamous "Plan D" of 1947-48 resulted in the murderous depopulation of 369 Palestinian towns and villages by the Haganah (Israeli army) and that massacre upon massacre of Palestinian civilians in such places as Deir Yassin, al-Dawayima, Eilaboun, Jish, Ramle and Lydda are referred to in official records as "ethnic cleansing". Arriving at the scene of this carnage, David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister, was asked by a general, Yigal Allon: 'What shall we do with the Arabs?' Ben-Gurion, reported the Israeli historian Benny Morris, 'made a dismissive, energetic gesture with his hand and said, 'Expel them''.
The order to expel an entire population 'without attention to age' was signed by Yitzhak Rabin, a future prime minister promoted by the world's most efficient propaganda as a peacemaker. The terrible irony of this was adressed only in passing, such as when the Mapam party co-leader Meir Ya'ari noted 'how easily' Israel's leaders spoke of how it was 'possible and permissible to take women, children and old men and to fill the road with them because such is the imperative of strategy. And this we say [...] who remember who used this means against our people during the [Second World] War... I am appalled.''

Mr. Chainsaw · 01-18-2009, 09:47 PM

Why Isreal Had to Act

Kameraad Pannekoek · 01-19-2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Chainsaw

Why Isreal Had to Act

Not for lack of trying. Qassam rockets are pretty pathetic. The only reason they're being used is a lack of bigger guns. I'm sure if they had competent weaponry they'd be using it.

Still, although I do support Israel going in, they have gone a bit overboard. It's giving Hamas way too many propaganda opportunities.

Jody LeCompte · 01-19-2009, 04:50 AM

"Rocket attacks kill nearly 2 Israeli a year".

That's outregeously violent. I can definately see good reason to hop on board with that guy.

Personally, I think at this point in time, it's pretty much set in stone that both Israel and Palistine are both fighting an unjust war and has been so for years. One attacks, then the other attacks, then the other attacks, then the other. So much attention is focused on who did what last and what have you done to me lately that it's completely overlooked that this is an extremely long-term crisis with lots if not mostly to all wrong doings on both parts. It just needs to be nipped in the bud.

Mycheaprecords · 02-01-2009, 12:54 AM

You guys probably support Israel troops because your country supports them. Uh, I mean, because the AIPAC supports them.
If the United-States had blamed on Israel's behaviour calling its army a bunch of organised terrorists, I'm not sure some of you would opine the way they just did.

The thing is, I'm not sure you even know that your opinions are influenced by what your government was told to say by the AIPAC about this crisis.
I'm not sure mine isn't somehow influenced by the fact that most of my fellow citizens tend to criticize Israel.

And as the AIPAC gives no other justification that Money, I think it's because there's nothing one can say to defend Israel. I mean, if the mighty AIPAC does not even mind giving any justification about all this, so who in the world can ?

And by the way, who's lobbying for Palestine ? Nobody. Still, there's A LOT of countries and people standing up for their sake.

And this is it : the major difference between those led by Money, and those led by Moral and Ideas.

Ddragggon · 02-01-2009, 03:56 AM

I don't have working television at my house, so I only found out bits and pieces about this. my views are as such:

1. Israelies and Palestinians have both inhabited the area for some obscenely long time - thousands and thousands of years, and very little of it has been peaceful.

2. The original plan for the Israeli area had been for a palestinian state to be created along side the israeli state, with Jerusalem a common interest area. After people started lobbing rockets missiles, and etc into Israel shortly after being formed, israel took a firm stand and solid resolve to hold onto what land it has. this resolve has never changed, and in many ways prevented the palestinian country from being fully formed.

3. If Mexico started shooting shitty rockets into Texas, what are the chances the US would ignore it, and not lay waste to everything between here and Panama? Conversely, if Germany started lobbing rockets into Poland, what are the chances Poland (and a good chunk of the rest of the world) wouldn't get up in arms and blow the entire place up?

4. Israel put up with Rocket attacks from the hammas for how long? 18 months of cease fire? They kept their end of the ceasefire at least.

5. I don't know the local politics, I don't understand the local politics. I scarecely want to even try to understand the mess that is the middle east. What I do understand is Israel has a big stick, and they're not afraid to smack people that piss them off with it.

6. All news is propiganda. Period. Best you can hope to do is get as many sources as possible, from as many spheres of influence as you can, and make your own decision on what you think of the situation.

7. My policy for the entire Mid East region is one of "turn the whole place into Glowing Sheetglass for all I care." Would anyone give 2 shakes about the Mid East, if they didn't sit on some obscenely huge portion of world oil production?

All that said, is it our business whats going on in their countries? Why don't we just lock them both in a closet, and last one standing wins? cut off all external money, and weapon supply, secure the borders, and either they learn to live together peacefully, or they beat eachother to death with sticks and stones.

01-06-2009, 12:19 PM	#2
Belizer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tbilisi, Georgia (Caucasus) Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Rep Power: 17	I think that all members of Hamas must be in prison or like this, but Israel's bombing of innocent people and refusing from ceasefire is the same crime and no excuse for this. Do I have to believe that these guys (Israel politicians) are as stupid as Hamas terrorists? And do they believe that military opertaion will bring peace to Israel? I suspect that in the long term they created more problems for Israel than Hamas rockets. __________________ It does not matter where you go, but matters how you pass Belizer

01-06-2009, 02:09 PM	#3
MusicMan "It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." - Voltaire Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Inside your head Posts: 7,392 Thanks: 564 Thanked 464 Times in 405 Posts Rep Power: 500	I think that if my apartment building housed 4 apartments full of innocent people and 4 apartments full of terrorists who launched mortars day and night into a nearby territory and killed innocent people with those mortars, that for me to cry and complain when that nearby territory drops a bomb on our apartment building and kills everyone, innocent collateral damage included, would be a rediculously egocentric and childish point of view to hold. Yes, there is a struggle where both sides fight and both sides end up killing more than their intended targets, but who is always the instigator? The PLO and Hamas and all those other palestinian terrorist groups, that's who. You never see a few months of peace broken up by unprovoked mortar attacks FROM Israel, it's the other way around. So until the Palestinians realize that forever stepping on the toe of a giant superpower by proxy, and stop blaming every fucking thing on the people they're provoking, they're never going to fucking learn a thing and they'll eventually be wiped off the map. But I'm no foreign policy expert, that's just my $.02 __________________ Rules! A definite must-read How to upload music to the Music Showcase. How to embed a YouTube video. Send me a PM if you need any help with anything.

01-06-2009, 05:12 PM	#4
Uncut Rubber One Step Beyond... Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Secret hideout in the Pennines Posts: 1,547 Thanks: 36 Thanked 84 Times in 71 Posts Rep Power: 76	I like to think of Israel as a very big man who enters a theatre where all seats are occupied, then kicks some people out of their seats and lays down in a relaxed manner, laying half on top of some of the people next to him, and occasionally lashing out brutally when someone tries to give him a push. Be reminded, what we know now as Israel was all Palestine territory once - now 78% per cent of former Palestine is Israel (and the people in that area were chased from their homes when Israel was founded), while the other 22% are the Palestine territories. And even in those 22% the Palestines aren't left alone - the West Bank is occupied, and its economy has been devastated by the "security wall", while the Gaza Strip could not be supplied with food because of the Israeli blockade, which lasted for several months prior to the current invasion. MusicMan, I agree that Hamas and their buddies are idiots, but imagine being a little boy in one of the Palestinian territories... this might be some of the things you know/think about Israel: 'Israel has built this big wall - now Dad can't reach his olive grove.' 'Israel let these people come here who occupied a big house on the other side of town, then set fire to the neighbours' house and lots of other houses when they were thrown out.' 'My grandmother once told me that she had to leave her house when she was a child, along with many other people, because of Israel.' And so on. If you have a miserable life with little hope for the future, and all you hear and see around you is 'Israel, Israel, Israel, it's all Israel's fault', is it hard to imagine that you join the men who fire missiles at Israel, or blow yourself up in an Israeli restaurant? __________________ I hope that you will understand I do not mean to cause offence, and that no wolfbirds will be sent upon me as a result of this post. Yours sincerely, Uncut Rubber

01-06-2009, 07:14 PM	#5
Aqualung Pshaw! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 11,548 Thanks: 527 Thanked 731 Times in 684 Posts Rep Power: 270	I agree with Uncut. But the way both sides have been handling the conflict is despicable. __________________ Here we go. Mushu cereal for breakfast with duck sauce.

01-06-2009, 07:20 PM	#6
Belizer Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tbilisi, Georgia (Caucasus) Posts: 17 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Rep Power: 17	If I am not mistakes it is Japaneese who used to say "Evil divours itself." And now Hamas and Israel both are on this way. For me - no difference. Only the one who stops first will win. And there is no will for this from any side. __________________ It does not matter where you go, but matters how you pass Belizer Last edited by Belizer : 01-07-2009 at 12:03 AM.

01-06-2009, 10:23 AM	#1
pokimol Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 15	What do you guys think about israel's invasion to Palestine? Israel army killed hundreds of innocent kids and babies, they are insane i think israel is an asshole have you guys seen pics of palestinian baby that dies became victim of stupid war? when i saw the photos, i just can say "fcuk israel"

01-13-2009, 11:22 AM	#7
pokimol Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 15	I dont give a shite about who is start the fight, but it is now very very very necessary and important to every person and institution in this whole earth (including -the powerless- U.N) to try their best to stop israel killing thousands of innocent kids, womens and babies... I think its the other way of genocide, israel Prime Minister is no different than NAZI's Hitler.. Fcuk Israel, Fcuk Bush !!!!

01-13-2009, 10:35 PM	#8
Kameraad Pannekoek Drunk on power. And beer. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wazzu Posts: 3,181 Thanks: 61 Thanked 133 Times in 114 Posts Rep Power: 500	I think Israel could have probably handled things a lot better, but I really can't disagree that something really needed to be done, so I support them going in. Just wish there was a better way to go about things. The big difference is that Israel kills civilians while going after military targets, while Hamas aims for civilians in the first place. __________________ If you ever need help with anything, anything at all, just send me a PM and I'll see what I can do for you. Dave's Gear: MIM Fretless Fender Jazz Bass Fender Rumble 100w Bass Amp Squier Affinity Series Stratocaster Vox Valvetronix AD30VT Guitar Amp Dunlop .71mm picks (Pink picks for the win!)

01-15-2009, 10:17 PM	#10
rconkling Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 15	I see both sides-- I think Israel is putting out a match with a firehose, but I also understand that Israel is willing to live peacefully with the Palestinians, but Hammas has been very vocal that they will not stop until there is no Israel. What're you gonna do??

01-15-2009, 10:53 PM	#11
Habey Gonzo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brussels (Belgium) Posts: 1,252 Thanks: 57 Thanked 93 Times in 83 Posts Rep Power: 86	I can't but agree with what MM said. And maybe add that, even if some palestinian territory was taken by israel decades ago (or whatever time), that territory was empty and abandoned, and there weren't many complaints. Then israel built infrastructures there, and once they were built, palestine asked for the territory back. It's like saying "there, you can have my old car, it doesn't work", and once the guy who takes it fixes it and put new paint, asking to get it back. __________________ -=The C in rap is silent=- IceWind -=- Habey Gonzo's nest

01-16-2009, 07:29 PM	#13
Habey Gonzo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brussels (Belgium) Posts: 1,252 Thanks: 57 Thanked 93 Times in 83 Posts Rep Power: 86	Well, I do still come and read every day, but don't post that often anymore I guess if the new band I found ends up working, you might see something in the showcase! __________________ -=The C in rap is silent=- IceWind -=- Habey Gonzo's nest

01-18-2009, 09:47 PM	#15
Mr. Chainsaw Suspended Animation Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Rep Power: 48	Why Isreal Had to Act __________________ "Since we're all going to die, it's obvious that when and how don't matter." Albert Camus

01-19-2009, 04:50 AM	#17
Jody LeCompte Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 531 Thanks: 3 Thanked 69 Times in 51 Posts Rep Power: 54	"Rocket attacks kill nearly 2 Israeli a year". That's outregeously violent. I can definately see good reason to hop on board with that guy. Personally, I think at this point in time, it's pretty much set in stone that both Israel and Palistine are both fighting an unjust war and has been so for years. One attacks, then the other attacks, then the other attacks, then the other. So much attention is focused on who did what last and what have you done to me lately that it's completely overlooked that this is an extremely long-term crisis with lots if not mostly to all wrong doings on both parts. It just needs to be nipped in the bud.

02-01-2009, 12:54 AM	#18
Mycheaprecords The Red Telephone Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: in the X-files Posts: 418 Thanks: 187 Thanked 52 Times in 45 Posts Rep Power: 49	You guys probably support Israel troops because your country supports them. Uh, I mean, because the AIPAC supports them. If the United-States had blamed on Israel's behaviour calling its army a bunch of organised terrorists, I'm not sure some of you would opine the way they just did. The thing is, I'm not sure you even know that your opinions are influenced by what your government was told to say by the AIPAC about this crisis. I'm not sure mine isn't somehow influenced by the fact that most of my fellow citizens tend to criticize Israel. And as the AIPAC gives no other justification that Money, I think it's because there's nothing one can say to defend Israel. I mean, if the mighty AIPAC does not even mind giving any justification about all this, so who in the world can ? And by the way, who's lobbying for Palestine ? Nobody. Still, there's A LOT of countries and people standing up for their sake. And this is it : the major difference between those led by Money, and those led by Moral and Ideas. __________________ Check out my latest song in the Music Showcase people! Last edited by Mycheaprecords : 02-01-2009 at 01:35 AM.

02-01-2009, 03:56 AM	#19
Ddragggon Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts Rep Power: 17	I don't have working television at my house, so I only found out bits and pieces about this. my views are as such: 1. Israelies and Palestinians have both inhabited the area for some obscenely long time - thousands and thousands of years, and very little of it has been peaceful. 2. The original plan for the Israeli area had been for a palestinian state to be created along side the israeli state, with Jerusalem a common interest area. After people started lobbing rockets missiles, and etc into Israel shortly after being formed, israel took a firm stand and solid resolve to hold onto what land it has. this resolve has never changed, and in many ways prevented the palestinian country from being fully formed. 3. If Mexico started shooting shitty rockets into Texas, what are the chances the US would ignore it, and not lay waste to everything between here and Panama? Conversely, if Germany started lobbing rockets into Poland, what are the chances Poland (and a good chunk of the rest of the world) wouldn't get up in arms and blow the entire place up? 4. Israel put up with Rocket attacks from the hammas for how long? 18 months of cease fire? They kept their end of the ceasefire at least. 5. I don't know the local politics, I don't understand the local politics. I scarecely want to even try to understand the mess that is the middle east. What I do understand is Israel has a big stick, and they're not afraid to smack people that piss them off with it. 6. All news is propiganda. Period. Best you can hope to do is get as many sources as possible, from as many spheres of influence as you can, and make your own decision on what you think of the situation. 7. My policy for the entire Mid East region is one of "turn the whole place into Glowing Sheetglass for all I care." Would anyone give 2 shakes about the Mid East, if they didn't sit on some obscenely huge portion of world oil production? All that said, is it our business whats going on in their countries? Why don't we just lock them both in a closet, and last one standing wins? cut off all external money, and weapon supply, secure the borders, and either they learn to live together peacefully, or they beat eachother to death with sticks and stones.

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