High Standards

A core subject for Keeping Music Alive.

My prophecy is that Drum and Bass will be the next big thing, the way hip hop is today, and will give the music industry a new lease of life. It is also that the evil rap of hiphop and rnb will succeed in its invasion of EDM.

if anyone would like to help me list the flagship songs of the initiative it would be helpful to all.

perhaps the first was Aerosmith and Run DMC, long before the real initiative took off. An accurate example is Daft Punks Harder Better Faster Stronger (or whatever the **** its called).

I think Faithless has also been used, but this is a list you can help with. Its amazing, you can actually hear the evolution happening right infront of you.

Feminism has hijacked dance music, such as trance, in the same way.

The point, of course, is that converting music to rap means that political/sociological lyrics can be injected, as propaganda, across the world. This wasnt really possible with the far more inefficient sung vocals of rock. it is interesting to see which songs they choose to hijack to reach different audiences. Music is truly dead. But if you want it alive, youll need to address this.

 

Aqualung

That's a very unusual statement.

I don't think drum and bass will be the next big thing. I think it will just be more melodic electronica, like the synthpop of the 80s, but not quite so gay.

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MusicMan

Aqualung's vision is more likely, I feel, since it's already happening for the last few years on the indie scene, to a certain degree. I think it will continue to enter the mainstream in waves. I don't think you'll ever hear drum and bass played on mainstream radio on a national level. That's more of a niche market that only does well in large cities with active nightlife scenes like NYC and LA. I think it's possible that techno could merge even more with rap, but probably not to the degree that more than a few artists are collaborating with each other. But that's just what my crystal ball shows, and it's been wrong plenty of times.

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Baphomet

What??? You must be kidding me I could post a huge list of political rock bands here... Drum and bass will never replace rock to many people hate it such as myself. Plus how many musicians do you really think want to give up composing for a drum loop and computer bass line?? I'm glad you like dance music but your claims are pretty ludicrous unless you mean the next big thing in pop, as pop is whatever the record execs decide to force feed the masses. So if pop is what you mean, you will never get political or social lyrics because none of the mindless monkeys that listen to pop would buy it... So you see the flaw in your theory? But most important is you statement of being core to keeping music alive... I'm sorry you must not have noticed that hip hop and rap are killing music and musicians... End rant.

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Jody LeCompte

Pop music by defintion is the "big thing".

Baphomet

Point taken... but it still isnt keeping music alive...

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We stand pseudo life, slaves to machines.

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Jody LeCompte

I think rap and hip-hop has a bit of ways to go musically before it dies out. Think about any other genre and the paths it's gone through stylistic changes, exciting history, etc.

Plus, there's been a LOT of good rap and hip hop coming out lately. I've enjoyed everything that Timbaland has been doing lately. You just have to get past the stigma and your general distaste for most things coming out of the genre and just listen for something fresh, exciting, beatiful, funky, good.

Baphomet

I would never in this life or the next use those words to describe hip hop or rap...

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We walk without eyes, chained to these.
We stand pseudo life, slaves to machines.

http://www.myspace.com/prosedescry <--My new band!!

Jody LeCompte

That's just being narrow minded, dude, It really is, you can't even argue. Your using the crap like Lil Wayne and Soilja Boy to define an entire genre.

What about guys like Immortal Technique, Jedi Mind Tricks, Weerd Science(fronted by Coheed and Cambria former drummer Coheed and Cambria), the Carps?

RickenbackerBassPlayer

I honestly never think rap will "die out" just because there are so many people that are like, "Woah, he is so cool he can like totally talk into a mic with a drum track." Obviously I don't think rap is music because there is no musical ability in it.

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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." - Ludwig Van Beethoven

Baphomet

Thank you...

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We walk without eyes, chained to these.
We stand pseudo life, slaves to machines.

http://www.myspace.com/prosedescry <--My new band!!

Jody LeCompte

So you know how to program drum beats, get a good vocal take, play a synth or keyboard? Get a good mix on the overall product? As a bass player, would you even begin to know how to approach playing over a hip hop backing?

I mean, it should be common sense since it's not talent.

RickenbackerBassPlayer

Hey, I never said rap was easy to make. Most of it is computerized. That is not music in my opinion. Very rarely you see people using keyboards, and it's usually at a live performance and the rapper isn't even playing them. So, when you balance it out thats how I look at it. Also, I would never think about playing over a hip-hop backing because it wouldn't be pleasant for me. I am not comparing my self to the genre, personally I think I am the worst bass player on this site, but that doesn't make rap music. But, that's getting off the point. All I am saying is if a rapper can get out there and play some crazy keyboards, or mix all his own stuff and rap then I will give him credit. Most rappers have like 20 other people do it for them.

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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." - Ludwig Van Beethoven

Jody LeCompte

The music still had to come from somewhere, dude. Even if it is all computerized, it still has to be written. The drum beats are still programmed the same way they would be played, bass hit on 1 2 and 3, rest on the four, etc. Synth lines, even programmed by a computer, would still have to be written out in musical notation, note by note by note.

What about old-hip hop? Iced Tea? Run Dmc? Run DMC rocked out with Aerosmith, man.

As for the rapper not playing the music themselves. How many AMAZING bands can you think of where the singer is just a good singer and the rest of the band is completely amazing? If that singer put out a solo cd, you probably wouldn't take two looks at it. But with that amazing backing band, you just can't turn it off. It's the same way the rap industry works.

Buddy Holly's first recording contract fell through because the industry didn't support their ideals. The music industry at the time believed there were composers, arrangers, and performers: all mixed and matched per song for the highest revenue. Look at Motown, dozens of singers all singing songs that are mostly written by others to music played by the same primary backing band placed by the record label?

I'm not trying to push anybody to like rap music. But the ideal that it's not real music or any less respectable than anything else is completely laughable by every facet of logic.

Just as much work goes into a rap song as anything else in the world.

"I wanna rock n roll all night, and party everyday"
-Kiss
"I wanna party like a rock star"
-Shop Boyz

They both just want to party, and that's really all they say. So why are Shop Boyz the ones that are wrong?

EDIT: Ninja edit on the aerosmith lol, don't know how that happened.

Baphomet

You can feel however you want about rap... I will never agree with you that it should be respected or even compareded to real music. Well I'll respect the rapper if they are political but still won't consider them music. Dr Suess to a drum machine does not = music. I don't care if 200 people worked on a recording... It's just a recording that follows a time signature. In this thinking if you play guitar hero you're a musician right? You still hit on the beat right?? And perhaps Brittany Spears should be respected too huh? Someone wrote her music... Nah you can like whatever you want and justify it so you don't feel stoopid for buying into a media scam but it will never make it true.

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We walk without eyes, chained to these.
We stand pseudo life, slaves to machines.

http://www.myspace.com/prosedescry <--My new band!!

Jody LeCompte

I like how you spend about half of the post pretending you accept my opinions and then spend the other half telling me how much more right you are than me.

:thumb:

When you actually go play in a hip hop studio and find out what those guys do for a living, come back and talk to me. Until then, I have no interest in your pseudo-racial, rock n' roll, elitism. Because I appreciate keeping all music alive. Not just the stuff I'm cool with.

Baphomet

I don't consider it music... And the only thing I ever agreed with was pop being considered a big thing so I don't know what you're talking about... And if I had all the equipment those jerkoffs have I could do what they do after practicing and learnig how to use pro-tools, so don't give me that load either... And I have a friend that makes hip hop so I know what it entails, a ton of studio work that can never really be done live. And now you bring race into this???? Whatever just because I don't agree does't mean you should call me a racist elitist or think because I see through what I believe to be a scam that it makes me closed minded... I listen to all kinds of music that tons of people don't like does that mean they're wrong?? No it means we have tastes that differ but calling what hip hop does music is a farce in my opinion so cover your ears because you don't like what I have to say... That seems rather childish to me for you to try and negate my opinion and then say you won't listen anymore because I must be hurting your ego or something. You didn't bother rebutting anything I said, instead you attacked me personally. So you can keep your Dr. Suess to a drum machine that glorifies violence and ignorance. And you're so open minded why?? I don't see you supporting Brittany or Madonna... You gonna tell me how great and talented they are? IMO rap is a scam it's easier and cheaper to make and requires far less training unless you're the producer or engineer...

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We walk without eyes, chained to these.
We stand pseudo life, slaves to machines.

http://www.myspace.com/prosedescry <--My new band!!

Jody LeCompte

Sorry, that was a bit uncalled for. I get really angry when I don't feel like I can express what I'm trying to say.

Truth be told, I saw Madonna in concert about 3 weeks ago. I don't care for Britney personally, however, her latest album was a production and mixing masterpiece.

It's not about expensive gear and Pro Tools, man, it's really not. Those tools are so ambiguous, you still have to teach them to do exactly what you need. Autotune sounds great and all, "oh wow, now I can sing this whole song in key with no actual talent". But that's not how it works. You have to program the autotune to tune based on the nearest tone in specific scales for the music your playing over. Then you can't just eye drop comcercial into the mic, you still have to be in the general ballpark.

You mention that my rap music just glorifies violence and ignorance? I value just about all rap because of it's production and it's dance-savvy beat. Does that mean I buy all the cds and listen to them on a regular basis? No. I will go to the club and dance to Little Wayne and Young Jeezy, Souija Boy, all those guys til the night ends. I never specified nor did you question or consider the kind of rap that I even listen to. The stuff that comes on my Ipod shuffle everyday, the stuff I draw inspiration from. So I decided to quote a couple of some sections from rap songs I genuinely enjoy so you can decide if they're just the "pimps and guns" rappers that consume the radio.

RickenbackerBassPlayer

To me there is no types of rap, it is all rap. I don't like it if it's violent, but I also don't like it if it's talking about prancing through the meadow on a hot summers day. I just don't like it. This debate can go on for pages, because it's all opinion.

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"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." - Ludwig Van Beethoven

Jody LeCompte

So. Clarify for me, just to show the lack of validity in your argument.

Because you don't like any rap, there is no such thing as different kinds of rap?

Baphomet

Maybe I've been unclear as well because I will listen to some hip hop/rap like KRS-1... Still don't think it's music but I can appreciate it because the lyrical content is awesome...
Like this one...

Stand clear! Don man a-talk
You can't stand where I stand, you can't walk where I walk
Watch out! We run New York
Police man come, we bust him out the park
I know this for a fact, you don't like how I act
You claim I'm sellin' crack
But you be doin' that
I'd rather say "see ya"
Cause I would never be ya
Be a officer? You WICKED overseer!
Ya hotshot, wanna get props and be a saviour
First show a little respect, change your behavior
Change your attitude, change your plan
There could never really be justice on stolen land
Are you really for peace and equality?
Or when my car is hooked up, you know you wanna follow me
Your laws are minimal
Cause you won't even think about lookin' at the real criminal
This has got to cease
Cause we be getting HYPED to the sound of da police!

Now here's a little truth
Open up your eye
While you're checking out the boom-bap, check the exercise
Take the word "overseer," like a sample
Repeat it very quickly in a crew for example
Overseer
Overseer
Overseer
Overseer
Officer, Officer, Officer, Officer!
Yeah, officer from overseer
You need a little clarity?
Check the similarity!
The overseer rode around the plantation
The officer is off patroling all the nation
The overseer could stop you what you're doing
The officer will pull you over just when he's pursuing
The overseer had the right to get ill
And if you fought back, the overseer had the right to kill
The officer has the right to arrest
And if you fight back they put a hole in your chest!
(Woop!) They both ride horses
After 400 years, I've _got_ no choices!
The police them have a little gun
So when I'm on the streets, I walk around with a bigger one
(Woop-woop!) I hear it all day
Just so they can run the light and be upon their way



But other than kool lyrics by a couple rappers I still think it's a genre of way over-rated garbage that blinds the minds of the unprivileged youth. And still think it's a studio scam as well...

And I stand corrected if you actually paid to see Madonna you are far more tolerant of music than I and probably a bit of a masochist. Finally I fully agree that Brittanys new album was an amazing studio production but I would never expect less from a pop puppet like her...

__________________
We walk without eyes, chained to these.
We stand pseudo life, slaves to machines.

http://www.myspace.com/prosedescry <--My new band!!

RickenbackerBassPlayer

Just because I don't like it doesn't mean someone else can't sort it out. Some people consider rock and hard rock the same, some people don't. The argument can last for ever.

__________________
"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." - Ludwig Van Beethoven

Jody LeCompte

baphomet4all and I managed to meet a middle grounds. So obviously it's not a civil war kind of issue.

The only reason the argument is still going at this point is because your playing off of your opinion with generalizations and refusing to even listen to what your saying.

"Some people think hard rock and rock are the same thing"
"This could last forever"
"No, because I think that...."

Baphomet

Meh I guess we can agree to disagree...

__________________
We walk without eyes, chained to these.
We stand pseudo life, slaves to machines.

http://www.myspace.com/prosedescry <--My new band!!

Uncut Rubber

KISS are wrong as well! Glam rock sucks, hard.

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I hope that you will understand I do not mean to cause offence, and that no wolfbirds will be sent upon me as a result of this post.
Yours sincerely, Uncut Rubber