The NUMBER ONE thing required to be a good songwriter

Khali · 01-10-2011, 08:29 PM

Take it or leave it, but time spent ALONE, will help your songwriting tremendously. I am writing this from a completely artistic perspective. Having time to reflect and gather your thoughts is a sure fire way to improve you songwriting. You're able to get YOUR ideas out without distractions or inhibitions. Many people write with others, which is cool, but you will never go to that next level if you continue to have distractions taking your attention away. Yes it will be boring, but worth it. Any talented artist that you admire has spent time alone to perfect their craft and skill through practice. Just a thought...

Dynamic Threads · 01-14-2011, 06:50 PM

Yes, but this shouldn't and does not apply for everyone.

Khali · 01-26-2011, 05:28 PM

Which is precisely why I say take it or leave it....bah, you just want to disagree. I never said it applied to everyone.....what's your point.....?

Dynamic Threads · 01-26-2011, 10:16 PM

I'm not even going to quote my original response. I will, however, point out that I, in fact, started the response with the word YES, which would indicate that I actually did somewhat agree with what you have implied.

You ask me what my point is, and I will regurgitate that same question back to you and point out that you emphasized, in the title of this thread, that this opinion of yours is the "NUMBER ONE thing required to be a good songwriter". And, you started your "point" off with "Take it or leave it" which indicates that you not only don't care if someone agrees or takes heed to your word, but that you are absolutely certian that you are right in saying this and that there is no counter-point nor arguement to be made.

So I ask you, Khali, what is your point?

Battlesnake · 01-28-2011, 01:40 AM

Quote:

So, my roommate Ryan and I, who is on the cover, got really, really drunk...really, really drunk. I mean really drunk. And I went up into my room, and I had a six-pack of Miller High Life, sat down at my computer, and I was in there, I’d say for 13 hours, writing songs. And I did three songs in like one-and-a-half days, because, I tried not to sleep. But here’s a funny story. The next day, I was supposed to leave that afternoon after school. I was going to get out of class and go right to Zing Studios. And, the morning of that day, before I went to school, I had a 10 o’clock class, and I got up at six o’clock in the morning. And this was kind of in the winter, so it was still dark out, and it was freezing, and I took my notepad and my car, and I parked my car in the school parking lot across the street from my apartment. And I was just writing, but it was freezing, so I had a hooded sweatshirt on, a denim jacket, like a denim vest because that was all I could find around the house. And it was bright so I brought sunglasses and had a hat. And I brought my beer. And I was writing in the notepad, and around 7:30, 7:30 comes around, and school busses start pulling into the parking lot. And there is this dude, in this car, drinking Miller High Life with sunglasses, a mesh hat, and a hooded sweatshirt just staring out the window and writing. So, needless to say, I tracked those kids down and I had to explain to them that I’m a professional, I’m not a child molester, I have a job to do, and I explained to them that we were writing a CD, and them I sold them a t-shirt.

Song writing in a nutshell, compliments of Every Time I Die.

However, some of my best lyrics have been written sitting on a guitar cab while my band jams and just flowing along to the music. Good lyrics come from the heart doesn't matter if you're alone or around a ton of people.

bigfredfresh · 01-29-2011, 10:43 PM

There is no good or bad time to write a song; misery writes hand in hand with bliss. By believing otherwise you assume that outside forces are cornerstone to the creative process.

A balanced and regulated mind expresses itself easily, all you need to do is add experience, something inseparable from being alive.

I believe writing songs is like recording the time-line of emotional experience and thought into organized sound. Writing good songs is simply a matter of refining your ability to communicate those emotions into a concise, attractive and relatable product.

All that said, I would suggest the number one thing required to be a good songwriter is to be honestly writing for yourself. When you write for others you write with separate minds, one considering what you want and would like, the other considering what someone else will think or feel when they hear it.

I believe this is why all the best songwriters were fucked up on drugs and other consciousness altering substances, to escape a divided mind and express themselves outside the human ego.

Just my opinion.

Dynamic Threads · 02-02-2011, 06:31 PM

I actually tend to write a lot of good stuff when I'm taking a shit.

Gabe Carter · 03-23-2011, 12:52 AM

I think the number 1 thing is to understand how to get a feeling into words/music. After that its details.

Stringbender · 03-23-2011, 10:39 PM

I sometimes hang out in a coffee shop and watch people- watch their interactions- and then thing up scenarios for them and from these scenarios I can sometimes write songs. Often times I will watch something and completely flip the story around so you have the usual "Boy meets girl" but then it becomes "Boy meets girl at bar, girl hits on boy- boy is happily surprised and goes home with girl to find she has brutaly murdered another man earlier -does NOT kill him, but girl now uses boy as alibi for said act and boy retells story to judge saying he is sorry but didn't know it was a crime to want to get lucky."
-now you see why I can be such an insomniac?

MusicMan · 03-24-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringbender

I sometimes hang out in a coffee shop and watch people- watch their interactions- and then thing up scenarios for them and from these scenarios I can sometimes write songs. Often times I will watch something and completely flip the story around so you have the usual "Boy meets girl" but then it becomes "Boy meets girl at bar, girl hits on boy- boy is happily surprised and goes home with girl to find she has brutaly murdered another man earlier -does NOT kill him, but girl now uses boy as alibi for said act and boy retells story to judge saying he is sorry but didn't know it was a crime to want to get lucky."
-now you see why I can be such an insomniac?

LOL, that's quite an imagination you've got there.

Stringbender · 03-27-2011, 04:22 PM

Thanks! All I'm saying is that inspiration can come from anywhere at any time.
Sometimes if we just take the obvious and mundane (such as the "boy meets girl" scenario) and we flip a few things around we can have something incredible. Think about it- it's the weekend- some of you with kids are probably taking the kids to Chuck E Cheese or something- NOW.. what if you flip that around so your kids are being chased by a 6 foot frickin' RAT..
If all you do is sit alone in a room- then you will more likely write from a personal viewpoint- things you are familiar with and that have mostly happened to you or those you know. This is GREAT to get things off your chest and to write some really powerful songs- but don't limit yourself to just one way of writing!

chirping · 04-30-2011, 03:09 PM

courage... you're putting yourself out there and you have to know that not everyone will like you.

heart... whatever you put down, it has to be something that comes from the heart.

vulnerability... you either allow others to see the deepest part of you or dont' write at all

chirping · 04-30-2011, 03:14 PM

oh... and patience... it doesnt' always come easy

Stringbender · 06-01-2011, 01:43 AM

Toilet paper.
Number one thing, regardless of whether you are a songwriter, lumberjack, goat herder or a goofball like ME!
OK, in all seriousness- a basic idea of what you are hoping to accomplish. For myself this usually starts with an idea of the type of melody I want and how I want it to sound when it is done. Then, an idea of the mood I want to create..this helps me determine the words to use and how to phrase them.

Stringbender · 06-01-2011, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dynamic Threads

I actually tend to write a lot of good stuff when I'm taking a shit.

dude!!! I REALLY did not need to know that...LOL..
actually, I get a lot of melodies in the shower -so I'm just as guilty.
umm..this goes back to what I said about toilet paper being important..

Frank! · 06-08-2011, 09:34 PM

I write about my own life and experiences most of the time. I'm not a great songwriter, but it helps me!

Stringbender · 06-11-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank!

I write about my own life and experiences most of the time. I'm not a great songwriter, but it helps me!

well, depending on the situations you write about it can be extremely therapeutic. For instance, I can only guess that writing out your feelings can help with getting through heartache or pain.

Frank! · 06-12-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stringbender

well, depending on the situations you write about it can be extremely therapeutic. For instance, I can only guess that writing out your feelings can help with getting through heartache or pain.

Exactly. If you write about personal issues, it is therapeutic. I sometimes write about people around me and what they're going through. It's less satisfying though.

Stringbender · 06-13-2011, 02:13 AM

Yet, sometimes it can be extremely difficult when I have to play these songs live. Sometimes the emotion gets me..the hurt or pain I have felt while writing the song comes back onstage- which can be a good thing I suppose because it can convey that message to the audience. However- it can work in reverse sometimes too where I have to play a song I wrote while being in love and sound happy and joyous and I am no longer in that situation so cannot feel that joy in my song or sometimes I have to sing a sad song but am in too good a mood. It can be difficult.

CapSlaps · 06-14-2011, 02:09 PM

React on how It Feels When Your saying it And writting Your Lyrics If You feel The Tingle And How It Sounds Usually YourOn The right Path

bjorkman · 07-04-2011, 02:32 PM

We had a discussion in my old band about the main songwriter who thought he should get more of the money we made from performances than the others in the band. He was of course listed as the songwriter so actual sales would give him more, but then again we sold almost nothing. He said that he couldn't get a real job because he had to spend so much time writing songs. For me, a song appears in an hour and then I usually work out the kinks together with my band instead of sitting alone and polishing, I think the input from others is very important.

superiorinferior · 07-07-2011, 03:06 AM

It's an irrelevant question. If you're having fun while doing it than you're doing it right. Songwriting doesn't have a defined system and never should. That's when creativity and originality are dead.

Stringbender · 07-07-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superiorinferior

It's an irrelevant question. If you're having fun while doing it than you're doing it right. Songwriting doesn't have a defined system and never should. That's when creativity and originality are dead.

How true and well said.. for me -it is both yes and no: what does it take to write a song- well, for that I answer that no one should limit themselves and it would be damning to oneself to do so. To say "Oh, I cannot write well unless I have a green # 2 pencil".. ok..s if you DON"T have it..you set yourself up with crap like that and it coud do some damage. Also, one should not be trapped by any limits of say "A/B structure, 4/4 time" or stick to a pattern that is always the same-it's good to venture out, break the mold now and then, have fun.

Now.. if you ask what MAY make a song popular..that is another matter when it comes to writing. THEN I could tell you to try a structure of "A/B -verse/ chorus" or make sure you have a catchy melody in mind when you are writing, give folks a hummable line or phrase that repeats a few times but doesnot bore- something folks can take home in their head. however, remember that although these are some well-used formats or ideas when it comes to songwriting- if you wite songs in some structure like it was some banged-out form like ad-libs (insert girl name here..insert verb here)
then your songwriting will eventually become as enthralling as filling out a form.

altender · 08-21-2011, 07:20 PM

I agree. I can't write when im not alone.

freakingidol · 10-24-2011, 12:06 PM

I'm making a difference between normal sentences and real lyrics. I like songs that are very much singable, like 'Rolling in the deep', the lyrics is possessed, invested.

01-26-2011, 10:16 PM	#4
Dynamic Threads Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Western New York Posts: 268 Thanks: 12 Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts Rep Power: 37	I'm not even going to quote my original response. I will, however, point out that I, in fact, started the response with the word *YES, which would indicate that I actually did somewhat agree with what you have implied. You ask me what my point is, and I will regurgitate that same question back to you and point out that you emphasized, in the title of this thread, that this opinion of yours is the "NUMBER ONE* thing required to be a good songwriter". And, you started your "point" off with "Take it or leave it" which indicates that you not only don't care if someone agrees or takes heed to your word, but that you are absolutely certian that you are right in saying this and that there is no counter-point nor arguement to be made. So I ask you, Khali, what is your point? __________________ Dynamic Threads On SoundCloud Dynamic Threads music on Last FM; Free MP3s Y'all Dynamic Threads on Myspace

02-02-2011, 06:31 PM	#7
Dynamic Threads Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Western New York Posts: 268 Thanks: 12 Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts Rep Power: 37	I actually tend to write a lot of good stuff when I'm taking a shit. __________________ Dynamic Threads On SoundCloud Dynamic Threads music on Last FM; Free MP3s Y'all Dynamic Threads on Myspace

03-23-2011, 10:39 PM	#9
Stringbender Guitar Adept Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: whispered in dark corners Posts: 1,863 Thanks: 297 Thanked 236 Times in 203 Posts Rep Power: 174	I sometimes hang out in a coffee shop and watch people- watch their interactions- and then thing up scenarios for them and from these scenarios I can sometimes write songs. Often times I will watch something and completely flip the story around so you have the usual "Boy meets girl" but then it becomes "Boy meets girl at bar, girl hits on boy- boy is happily surprised and goes home with girl to find she has brutaly murdered another man earlier -does NOT kill him, but girl now uses boy as alibi for said act and boy retells story to judge saying he is sorry but didn't know it was a crime to want to get lucky." -now you see why I can be such an insomniac? __________________ "personally..I take reviewing Lady Gaga's music the same as I would analyzing turds in the toilet bowl in hopes it will look like a Rembrandt." Only with the eyes closed can one begin to truly see.

03-27-2011, 04:22 PM	#11
Stringbender Guitar Adept Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: whispered in dark corners Posts: 1,863 Thanks: 297 Thanked 236 Times in 203 Posts Rep Power: 174	Thanks! All I'm saying is that inspiration can come from anywhere at any time. Sometimes if we just take the obvious and mundane (such as the "boy meets girl" scenario) and we flip a few things around we can have something incredible. Think about it- it's the weekend- some of you with kids are probably taking the kids to Chuck E Cheese or something- NOW.. what if you flip that around so your kids are being chased by a 6 foot frickin' RAT.. If all you do is sit alone in a room- then you will more likely write from a personal viewpoint- things you are familiar with and that have mostly happened to you or those you know. This is GREAT to get things off your chest and to write some really powerful songs- but don't limit yourself to just one way of writing! __________________ "personally..I take reviewing Lady Gaga's music the same as I would analyzing turds in the toilet bowl in hopes it will look like a Rembrandt." Only with the eyes closed can one begin to truly see.

06-01-2011, 01:43 AM	#14
Stringbender Guitar Adept Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: whispered in dark corners Posts: 1,863 Thanks: 297 Thanked 236 Times in 203 Posts Rep Power: 174	Toilet paper. Number one thing, regardless of whether you are a songwriter, lumberjack, goat herder or a goofball like ME! OK, in all seriousness- a basic idea of what you are hoping to accomplish. For myself this usually starts with an idea of the type of melody I want and how I want it to sound when it is done. Then, an idea of the mood I want to create..this helps me determine the words to use and how to phrase them. __________________ "personally..I take reviewing Lady Gaga's music the same as I would analyzing turds in the toilet bowl in hopes it will look like a Rembrandt." Only with the eyes closed can one begin to truly see.

01-10-2011, 08:29 PM	#1
Khali Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 18	Take it or leave it, but time spent ALONE, will help your songwriting tremendously. I am writing this from a completely artistic perspective. Having time to reflect and gather your thoughts is a sure fire way to improve you songwriting. You're able to get YOUR ideas out without distractions or inhibitions. Many people write with others, which is cool, but you will never go to that next level if you continue to have distractions taking your attention away. Yes it will be boring, but worth it. Any talented artist that you admire has spent time alone to perfect their craft and skill through practice. Just a thought...

01-14-2011, 06:50 PM	#2
Dynamic Threads Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Western New York Posts: 268 Thanks: 12 Thanked 40 Times in 28 Posts Rep Power: 37	Yes, but this shouldn't and does not apply for everyone.

01-26-2011, 05:28 PM	#3
Khali Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 9 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 18	Which is precisely why I say take it or leave it....bah, you just want to disagree. I never said it applied to everyone.....what's your point.....?

01-29-2011, 10:43 PM	#6
bigfredfresh Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 17 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Rep Power: 16	There is no good or bad time to write a song; misery writes hand in hand with bliss. By believing otherwise you assume that outside forces are cornerstone to the creative process. A balanced and regulated mind expresses itself easily, all you need to do is add experience, something inseparable from being alive. I believe writing songs is like recording the time-line of emotional experience and thought into organized sound. Writing good songs is simply a matter of refining your ability to communicate those emotions into a concise, attractive and relatable product. All that said, I would suggest the number one thing required to be a good songwriter is to be honestly writing for yourself. When you write for others you write with separate minds, one considering what you want and would like, the other considering what someone else will think or feel when they hear it. I believe this is why all the best songwriters were fucked up on drugs and other consciousness altering substances, to escape a divided mind and express themselves outside the human ego. Just my opinion.

03-23-2011, 12:52 AM	#8
Gabe Carter Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 0	I think the number 1 thing is to understand how to get a feeling into words/music. After that its details.

04-30-2011, 03:09 PM	#12
chirping Bottom of the Food Chain Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 14	courage... you're putting yourself out there and you have to know that not everyone will like you. heart... whatever you put down, it has to be something that comes from the heart. vulnerability... you either allow others to see the deepest part of you or dont' write at all

04-30-2011, 03:14 PM	#13
chirping Bottom of the Food Chain Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 14	oh... and patience... it doesnt' always come easy

06-08-2011, 09:34 PM	#16
Frank! Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 12	I write about my own life and experiences most of the time. I'm not a great songwriter, but it helps me!

06-13-2011, 02:13 AM	#19
Stringbender Guitar Adept Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: whispered in dark corners Posts: 1,863 Thanks: 297 Thanked 236 Times in 203 Posts Rep Power: 174	Yet, sometimes it can be extremely difficult when I have to play these songs live. Sometimes the emotion gets me..the hurt or pain I have felt while writing the song comes back onstage- which can be a good thing I suppose because it can convey that message to the audience. However- it can work in reverse sometimes too where I have to play a song I wrote while being in love and sound happy and joyous and I am no longer in that situation so cannot feel that joy in my song or sometimes I have to sing a sad song but am in too good a mood. It can be difficult. __________________ "personally..I take reviewing Lady Gaga's music the same as I would analyzing turds in the toilet bowl in hopes it will look like a Rembrandt." Only with the eyes closed can one begin to truly see.

06-14-2011, 02:09 PM	#20
CapSlaps Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 12	React on how It Feels When Your saying it And writting Your Lyrics If You feel The Tingle And How It Sounds Usually YourOn The right Path

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07-04-2011, 02:32 PM	#21
bjorkman Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 11	We had a discussion in my old band about the main songwriter who thought he should get more of the money we made from performances than the others in the band. He was of course listed as the songwriter so actual sales would give him more, but then again we sold almost nothing. He said that he couldn't get a real job because he had to spend so much time writing songs. For me, a song appears in an hour and then I usually work out the kinks together with my band instead of sitting alone and polishing, I think the input from others is very important.

07-07-2011, 03:06 AM	#22
superiorinferior Superior Inferior Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Nashville, Tennessee Posts: 31 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Rep Power: 11	It's an irrelevant question. If you're having fun while doing it than you're doing it right. Songwriting doesn't have a defined system and never should. That's when creativity and originality are dead.

08-21-2011, 07:20 PM	#24
altender Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 10	I agree. I can't write when im not alone.

10-24-2011, 12:06 PM	#25
freakingidol Songwriter Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Rep Power: 8	I'm making a difference between normal sentences and real lyrics. I like songs that are very much singable, like 'Rolling in the deep', the lyrics is possessed, invested.

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