So, tell me about...

Kameraad Pannekoek · 09-02-2008, 05:23 AM

Hollow body electric guitars. I'm talking about your Epiphone dots or your Gretsch whatevers. I know absolutely nothing about them other than that they look awesome and are used for some of my favorite musicings. Does the hollowness make distortion a pain to control? Are there any decent affordable ones? Is it true that Brian Setzer is really a Martian bent on destroying us through trebly licks? Just take this opportunity to tell me all you can. I finally have a job (and thus, a paycheck) and hollowbodies have been catching my eye.

sgtwatts · 09-02-2008, 06:07 PM

Seriously the best bang for your buck hollow body would be the Ibanez Artcore hollow body guitar. Walnut binding on a maple body and mahogany neck. You can buy them in just about any set up and they can range from 499 to 900. I know a guy that has one and I've been thinking about it but I got a Les Paul on hold so I'm going to have to wait until next year. Seriously google 'em and check 'em out.

Aqualung · 09-02-2008, 06:30 PM

My dad has a hollow bodied guitar. He doesn't play anything really distorted like today's heavy metal, but it sounds fine playing something as distorted as, say AC/DC.

TAHOEAGLE · 09-02-2008, 07:32 PM

Here we go, some of this information is from the great book "Gibson Guitars-100 years of an american icon", and from "Totally Guitar the definitive guide"
It all started back in the 1920's with Orville Gibson's invention of the carved top mandolins. Loyd Loar, who worked to perfect the mandolin for Gibson, also built the first archtop guitar. His creation, the Gibson L-5 was the first archtop, available in the 1920's.
In the jazz world Johnny Lang used it to create the very concept of the jazz guitar. Maybelle Carter used it to play her distinctive country music. The list of musicians that played or started on an archtop is enless.
In 1937 Gibson came out with the ES-100 of Charlie Christian fame. It was the first electric guitar, an archtop. And, as they say, the rest is history.
All archtops are not alike, An ES-125 or ES-175, and an ES-135 or ES-335, look the same but are built different. The ES-125 is a true hollowbody with a bridge on top, and a tailpiece that attaches to the end. The ES-335 has a solid block of wood inside and a bridge and tailpiece setup like a Les Paul, with the tailpiece attached to the wood block inside. My ES-135 has both, an internal block that the bridge pins to, and an archtop tailpiece. The internal block increases sustain and high end tone, but it deadens the accoustic qualities of the hollowbody making it quieter than a true hollowbody.
Some "semiaccoustic" guitars Like the Gibson "Birdland", Gretches, and the thin line guitars are built this way. That's also why they don't have much sound without an amp. True archtops don't need an amp to be heard.
Also, a real archtop like the Gibson ES-330 has a neck joint at the 16th fret, where an ES-345 has a solid core with a neck joint at the 20th fret.
B.B.Kings ES-345 has no f-holes because he had trouble with feedback, so it looks like a hollowbody, but plays like a solidbody.
I love archtops, they've got style and class. Here's a picture of my first rescue project, an old Conrad 40080 archtop I restored and upgraded with Les Paul humbuckers. It now has a Bigsby on it too.
I hope this helps, archtops are my favorites. There's nothing prettier to me than a deep jazzbox archtop with gold hardware. Check out an ES-175 or a Gibson Barney Kessel.
Trivia question. Why is it called an ES-175? Because when first sold the price for a Gibson ES-175 was $175.00. Now they cost thousands.
Please ask if you have more questions.

Kameraad Pannekoek · 09-02-2008, 09:43 PM

Awesome post, thanks. I'm looking for something I can play at least quietly unplugged. I don't need like a full acoustic sound or anything, just enough that I can hear myself practice really. Do you have any recommendations for affordable ones? Also, this is a bit nitpicky, but I've never really gotten into double cutaway ones like I have with single cutaway ones. And, of course, a good old bigsby-style tremolo is always a nice feature.

TAHOEAGLE · 09-02-2008, 10:16 PM

I've had a Washburn Delta King ES-335 knockoff, and a Galveston ES-175 knockoff, both Chineese archtop guitars, both very playable, for about $100.00 each. But those guitars will never appreciate in value, or compare to even an old MIJ lawsuit era knockoff like I try to rebuild.
Thick or thin, single cutaway or double, set neck or bolt on, semihollow or true hollowbody, get what you like to play and look at. There is no perfect guitar, but to me a blond ES-175 in gold is hard to beat.

Jody LeCompte · 09-03-2008, 11:17 PM

One thing that really draws me to hollowbodies, I play a Gibson ES335 from around '79 or so, is the sustain. The styles of music and the circles I travel in require me to have a massive ammount of sustain. To get the tone I need, I would crank my gain and my distortion to ungodly levels and it sounded like fizzy poop.

Once I know started rocking a hollowbody guitar, I could dial down my distortion, dial down my gain, maintain the sustain, and regain my pick and note articulation.

TAHOEAGLE · 10-14-2008, 05:40 PM

The Gibson ES-335 was first introduced in 1958, two years after the Les Paul. Ted McCarty was head of Gibson guitars, and wanted a guitar that blended the sounds of hollowbodies and solid bodies. They invented the ES-335, and the whole concept of semi-hollow guitars.
Three years before Gibson had introduced the ES-125T, ES-350T,and the Birdland. The ES-335 was like no other, it had a solid wood spine inside. More for tonal considerations than anything else. The stop tailpiece looked impossible to build on a standard archtop, but it was critical to the high end sound and sustain.
Ted went to his electronics dept., and asked Walt Fuller if he would work on the noise problem of Gibsons pickups. Ted said, "Fellows, some of our players are complaining about the noise, the squealing pickups, so we've got to come up with a way to buck that hum somehow." And thats how the humbucker was invented, and how it got it's name. Seth Lover designed it. Those first PAF, Patent Applied For pickups are the holy grail of humbuckers today.
Many variations of the 335 evolved, but the 335 has become an icon to guitar players. The term "Dot", evolved from "Dot neck", the classic ES-335 which had the stop tailpiece, PAF humbuckers, dot inlays, tune-o-matic bridge, and a mahogany neck. Available in sunburst, blond, and red, an early ES-335 has become one of the most desireable guitars there is.

Joel · 10-15-2008, 03:57 AM

Don't play metal on one, but really? You can play pretty much anything else on one, in my opinion. a LOT of hollowbodies are used in Jazz and Blues music. And a lot of them are used at times in older rock/rock and roll too. They really sound great. Also Dave Grohl has a custom model Semi Hollow (Gibson DG335) which he plays for probably 70 to 80% of the Foo Fighters live set, and the lead guitarist Chris Shifflett has a gretch that he brings out for a couple songs every show. So they can clearly get up near the heavy end too. Really versataile guitars, and they look and sound great.

RickenbackerBassPlayer · 10-15-2008, 04:14 AM

I hear alot of blues and jazz on hallows.

Jody LeCompte · 10-17-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel

Don't play metal on one, but really? You can play pretty much anything else on one, in my opinion. a LOT of hollowbodies are used in Jazz and Blues music. And a lot of them are used at times in older rock/rock and roll too. They really sound great. Also Dave Grohl has a custom model Semi Hollow (Gibson DG335) which he plays for probably 70 to 80% of the Foo Fighters live set, and the lead guitarist Chris Shifflett has a gretch that he brings out for a couple songs every show. So they can clearly get up near the heavy end too. Really versataile guitars, and they look and sound great.

95% of metal is about look.

So good guitars aren't allowed.

/biased
/thread

09-02-2008, 05:23 AM	#1
Kameraad Pannekoek Drunk on power. And beer. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wazzu Posts: 3,181 Thanks: 61 Thanked 133 Times in 114 Posts Rep Power: 500	Hollow body electric guitars. I'm talking about your Epiphone dots or your Gretsch whatevers. I know absolutely nothing about them other than that they look awesome and are used for some of my favorite musicings. Does the hollowness make distortion a pain to control? Are there any decent affordable ones? Is it true that Brian Setzer is really a Martian bent on destroying us through trebly licks? Just take this opportunity to tell me all you can. I finally have a job (and thus, a paycheck) and hollowbodies have been catching my eye. __________________ If you ever need help with anything, anything at all, just send me a PM and I'll see what I can do for you. Dave's Gear: MIM Fretless Fender Jazz Bass Fender Rumble 100w Bass Amp Squier Affinity Series Stratocaster Vox Valvetronix AD30VT Guitar Amp Dunlop .71mm picks (Pink picks for the win!)

09-02-2008, 06:07 PM	#2
sgtwatts Bassist On A Quest Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Denver, Colorado (Born St. Louis, MO) Posts: 211 Thanks: 24 Thanked 23 Times in 21 Posts Rep Power: 31	Seriously the best bang for your buck hollow body would be the Ibanez Artcore hollow body guitar. Walnut binding on a maple body and mahogany neck. You can buy them in just about any set up and they can range from 499 to 900. I know a guy that has one and I've been thinking about it but I got a Les Paul on hold so I'm going to have to wait until next year. Seriously google 'em and check 'em out. __________________ Fender Jag Bass Hot Rod Red MIM Fender Jazz Deluxe Bass Black fav Ibanez soundgear LTD Bass Cherry Blossom Pickguard Gerry Willis five string fretless

09-02-2008, 07:32 PM	#4
TAHOEAGLE Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lake Tahoe, Cal. Posts: 175 Thanks: 21 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts Rep Power: 40	Here we go, some of this information is from the great book "Gibson Guitars-100 years of an american icon", and from "Totally Guitar the definitive guide" It all started back in the 1920's with Orville Gibson's invention of the carved top mandolins. Loyd Loar, who worked to perfect the mandolin for Gibson, also built the first archtop guitar. His creation, the Gibson L-5 was the first archtop, available in the 1920's. In the jazz world Johnny Lang used it to create the very concept of the jazz guitar. Maybelle Carter used it to play her distinctive country music. The list of musicians that played or started on an archtop is enless. In 1937 Gibson came out with the ES-100 of Charlie Christian fame. It was the first electric guitar, an archtop. And, as they say, the rest is history. All archtops are not alike, An ES-125 or ES-175, and an ES-135 or ES-335, look the same but are built different. The ES-125 is a true hollowbody with a bridge on top, and a tailpiece that attaches to the end. The ES-335 has a solid block of wood inside and a bridge and tailpiece setup like a Les Paul, with the tailpiece attached to the wood block inside. My ES-135 has both, an internal block that the bridge pins to, and an archtop tailpiece. The internal block increases sustain and high end tone, but it deadens the accoustic qualities of the hollowbody making it quieter than a true hollowbody. Some "semiaccoustic" guitars Like the Gibson "Birdland", Gretches, and the thin line guitars are built this way. That's also why they don't have much sound without an amp. True archtops don't need an amp to be heard. Also, a real archtop like the Gibson ES-330 has a neck joint at the 16th fret, where an ES-345 has a solid core with a neck joint at the 20th fret. B.B.Kings ES-345 has no f-holes because he had trouble with feedback, so it looks like a hollowbody, but plays like a solidbody. I love archtops, they've got style and class. Here's a picture of my first rescue project, an old Conrad 40080 archtop I restored and upgraded with Les Paul humbuckers. It now has a Bigsby on it too. I hope this helps, archtops are my favorites. There's nothing prettier to me than a deep jazzbox archtop with gold hardware. Check out an ES-175 or a Gibson Barney Kessel. Trivia question. Why is it called an ES-175? Because when first sold the price for a Gibson ES-175 was $175.00. Now they cost thousands. Please ask if you have more questions. Attached Images To view attachments your post count must be 0 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily. Last edited by TAHOEAGLE : 09-04-2008 at 12:05 AM. Reason: info added

09-02-2008, 09:43 PM	#5
Kameraad Pannekoek Drunk on power. And beer. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wazzu Posts: 3,181 Thanks: 61 Thanked 133 Times in 114 Posts Rep Power: 500	Awesome post, thanks. I'm looking for something I can play at least quietly unplugged. I don't need like a full acoustic sound or anything, just enough that I can hear myself practice really. Do you have any recommendations for affordable ones? Also, this is a bit nitpicky, but I've never really gotten into double cutaway ones like I have with single cutaway ones. And, of course, a good old bigsby-style tremolo is always a nice feature. __________________ If you ever need help with anything, anything at all, just send me a PM and I'll see what I can do for you. Dave's Gear: MIM Fretless Fender Jazz Bass Fender Rumble 100w Bass Amp Squier Affinity Series Stratocaster Vox Valvetronix AD30VT Guitar Amp Dunlop .71mm picks (Pink picks for the win!)

09-02-2008, 10:16 PM	#6
TAHOEAGLE Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lake Tahoe, Cal. Posts: 175 Thanks: 21 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts Rep Power: 40	I've had a Washburn Delta King ES-335 knockoff, and a Galveston ES-175 knockoff, both Chineese archtop guitars, both very playable, for about $100.00 each. But those guitars will never appreciate in value, or compare to even an old MIJ lawsuit era knockoff like I try to rebuild. Thick or thin, single cutaway or double, set neck or bolt on, semihollow or true hollowbody, get what you like to play and look at. There is no perfect guitar, but to me a blond ES-175 in gold is hard to beat. Attached Images To view attachments your post count must be 0 or greater. Your post count is 0 momentarily.

09-02-2008, 06:30 PM	#3
Aqualung Pshaw! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 11,548 Thanks: 527 Thanked 731 Times in 684 Posts Rep Power: 270	My dad has a hollow bodied guitar. He doesn't play anything really distorted like today's heavy metal, but it sounds fine playing something as distorted as, say AC/DC.

09-03-2008, 11:17 PM	#7
Jody LeCompte Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 531 Thanks: 3 Thanked 69 Times in 51 Posts Rep Power: 54	One thing that really draws me to hollowbodies, I play a Gibson ES335 from around '79 or so, is the sustain. The styles of music and the circles I travel in require me to have a massive ammount of sustain. To get the tone I need, I would crank my gain and my distortion to ungodly levels and it sounded like fizzy poop. Once I know started rocking a hollowbody guitar, I could dial down my distortion, dial down my gain, maintain the sustain, and regain my pick and note articulation.

10-14-2008, 05:40 PM	#8
TAHOEAGLE Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lake Tahoe, Cal. Posts: 175 Thanks: 21 Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts Rep Power: 40	The Gibson ES-335 was first introduced in 1958, two years after the Les Paul. Ted McCarty was head of Gibson guitars, and wanted a guitar that blended the sounds of hollowbodies and solid bodies. They invented the ES-335, and the whole concept of semi-hollow guitars. Three years before Gibson had introduced the ES-125T, ES-350T,and the Birdland. The ES-335 was like no other, it had a solid wood spine inside. More for tonal considerations than anything else. The stop tailpiece looked impossible to build on a standard archtop, but it was critical to the high end sound and sustain. Ted went to his electronics dept., and asked Walt Fuller if he would work on the noise problem of Gibsons pickups. Ted said, "Fellows, some of our players are complaining about the noise, the squealing pickups, so we've got to come up with a way to buck that hum somehow." And thats how the humbucker was invented, and how it got it's name. Seth Lover designed it. Those first PAF, Patent Applied For pickups are the holy grail of humbuckers today. Many variations of the 335 evolved, but the 335 has become an icon to guitar players. The term "Dot", evolved from "Dot neck", the classic ES-335 which had the stop tailpiece, PAF humbuckers, dot inlays, tune-o-matic bridge, and a mahogany neck. Available in sunburst, blond, and red, an early ES-335 has become one of the most desireable guitars there is.

10-15-2008, 03:57 AM	#9
Joel Biggest gig ever was a talent show Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Cold Cold Canada Posts: 272 Thanks: 32 Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts Rep Power: 39	Don't play metal on one, but really? You can play pretty much anything else on one, in my opinion. a LOT of hollowbodies are used in Jazz and Blues music. And a lot of them are used at times in older rock/rock and roll too. They really sound great. Also Dave Grohl has a custom model Semi Hollow (Gibson DG335) which he plays for probably 70 to 80% of the Foo Fighters live set, and the lead guitarist Chris Shifflett has a gretch that he brings out for a couple songs every show. So they can clearly get up near the heavy end too. Really versataile guitars, and they look and sound great. __________________ Wrong or right, Black or white, If I close my eyes, Its all the same. Joels Guitar Setup = Ibanez RGA Prestige 121 --> Dunlop Crybaby --> Boss Super Overdrive --> Fuchs Tube Job --> Traynor YCS50 (PODXt Live in loop) --> Ears

10-15-2008, 04:14 AM	#10
RickenbackerBassPlayer Play the music, not the instrument Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Behind You Posts: 3,612 Thanks: 129 Thanked 170 Times in 160 Posts Rep Power: 129	I hear alot of blues and jazz on hallows. __________________ Make sure to read the Rules for posting. Check out the KMA Review team thread post if interested. If you have any problems please feel free to Send me a message.. "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." - Ludwig Van Beethoven

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